Wednesday, February 29, 2012

Samanvaya Vidhya Dham




After a few days of yoga and meditation at the idyllic and serene setting of Sadhaka Grama Ashram, we took an auto rickshaw to Samanvaya Vidhya Dham, also in Rishikesh just few miles down the road, but the setting of this place couldn’t be any more different.  Would you believe this Christian Center is right in the heart of one of Hinduism’s most holy place?  It stands here both as a witness to Hinduism’s tolerance for other faiths as well as this Center’s commitment to develop interfaith understanding and explore the depth of each other’s tradition. 

Upon our arrival, the brothers at the Institute took us to the Sunday morning worship service offered at the Syro-Malabar Church of Indian Carmelite tradition.  Fr. Raymond, now in his 70s from Kerala, came to this place and founded the first church in this area in 1974 amid lot of oppositions from the local Hindus. Sitting on a hill on the bank of Ganges with a view of the surrounding mountains, the architecture of this church blends nicely with the area.  And the worship is in Hindi with bhajans using typical Indian musical instruments like harmonium, tabla and small brass bells. The brothers, who are at the center and in training to be ordained priests, served as acolytes, lectors, chanters, cantors, and played the musical instruments.  Congregation sat on carpeted floor during the service. The priest, sitting on the floor on a slightly elevated seat behind the altar, conducted the mass. Incense sticks burned at the altar spread the aroma of sandalwood in the whole church.  The statue of Mother Mary holding the baby Jesus sports a sari, a garland along with a rosary and stands inside the petals of a lotus flower. A visiting Hindu would feel at home in this church. Bearing in mind that there were some foreigners, the priest offered the sermon in English too.  Peace was exchanged with Namaste.  In place of offertory during the service, a box is placed in the church for people to make their offering. Congregation took communion, standing in sline.  Service lasted about an hour.  After the service, tea and cookies were served out side in the open.  We came back to the church the next day, Monday, to attend a service marking the beginning of the 50-day long lent and to be imposed ashes on foreheads.  According to the Eastern tradition, if the lent didn’t start on Monday it wouldn’t be fifty days to Easter.   I posted some of the pictures from this church.

Fr. Davis Varalyilan, the director of the center, was away at another seminary out of state when we came to the center, but he had instructed the brothers to provide us with hospitality.  We were warmly received and were attended to by the brothers.  This class of brothers has only seven at the center and the half of them are undergoing their training in Ghana, Africa.  We were impressed with their simple and ashram like life style.  These brothers, who took the vow of celibacy for life are all in their late twenties and had already finished 13 of 14 years of seminary training and education. 

The Study Center where we are staying at is a new building, about four years old. Additions are being built to have a separate dining hall and a new library.  The ambience of the chapel at the center is, like at the church, and is contextualized to the Indian setting.  The pictures of the chapel are also posted.  The artwork on the wall behind the altar, designed by a Hindu artist, has Jesus portrayed like a yogi in padmasana (lotus posture) meditating right in nature.  The artwork on either side is also very Biblical and symbolic of the context of Indian pluralistic setting.





Fr. Davis, when he returned to the center middle of the week, explained to us the need for a contextualized Christianity in India.  It is a shame that Christianity is still considered a foreign religion even after its 2000-year old history in Indian soil.  So, there is an ever-growing awareness among leading theologians to make Christianity more contextualized to the local setting in India.  Jesus portrayed in the original setting of Palestine as a mendicant and itinerant teacher with his sayings in the gospels in the first century resembles very much a Hindu sadhu or sanyasi we find on the banks of Rishikesh. Samanyvaya, a Sanskrit word meaning ecumenical was started in 1994 as a movement of Carmelite of Mary Immaculate (CMI) to impart contextualized theological education for future priests.  It is an Extension Centre of Dharmaram Vidhya Kshetram, Pontifical Athenaeum of Philosophy, Theology and Canon Law, Bangalore.  This is where I am going next.  

Friday, February 24, 2012

Sadhaka Grama Ashram




We were warmly received at the Swami Rama Sadhaka Grama Ashram.  Though we late for the breakfast, they made sure that we got food and our morning cup of tea.  The cottage we were in is simple, practical, amply furnished and has Wi-Fi connection. Ram Prakash, a graduate of Gurukulam School run by the Ashram, gave us a quick overview of what we can expect in the next few days.  The handbook has the general schedule, the dos and don’ts of the Ashram, names of the books recommended for yoga and meditation practices, and the prayers for various occasions in Sanskrit with English transliteration and translation.  Food was strictly vegetarian with only certain spices and without onion and garlic, no coffee and no alcohol. Each guest is provided a bag with a plate, a spoon, a small bowl, and a tumbler, all stainless steel.  After prayers, we stand in line to get our food, and after we eat, we clean our own dishes and keep it in the bag and take it to our cottage.  Tea is served at 6:30 a. m. and 4 p.m.  Most of the guests were from outside India, mainly Europeans, some from the Americas including us.  One of the pictures uploaded is our daily schedule.

At the Ashram they’re very particular about the purpose of doing yoga. Here, it is meant to prepare one for meditation (dhyana in Sanskrit).  At Sadhaka Grama, this Himalayan tradition, which traces its origin to thousands of years back and has been kept alive for its intended use by sages and practitioners of meditation, is strictly followed.  This is a far cry from how yoga is now popularly practiced in many places, as a technique to tone one’s body, even though there is nothing wrong with that.   Our Ashram handbook says, “Regular and systematic practice leads to stronger and more flexible body (muscles, joints, tissues, inner organs) and on a subtler level help us to remove blocks in the energy and mental layers of our being  (products of emotional blocks) so that our body and mind can become still, ready for meditation, for the experience of self.” Susan and I found these practices very helpful.  The key, however, is in forming a habit of doing this regularly and systematically.  And that’s now our challenge.

Susan and I had the rare privilege of meeting with Swami Veda Bharati, the Spiritual Director of the Ashram. When we told him that we are Episcopalians from the US and that I’m a priest there, his interest in us was peaked, and shared with us his knowledge of the great Christian tradition of meditation followed by St. Ignatius.  He said people of different faith come there to develop a deeper appreciation of their own faith and to hone their spiritual experience.  He gave us a few of his guided Christian meditation CDs for us to use in the church. To learn more about this Ashram and about Swami Veda Bharati, please log in at www.ahymsin.org, www.the meditationcenter.org, or www.swamiveda.org.






Rishikesh




Rishikesh, twin city to Haridwar, is at the confluence of the rivers Chandrabhaga and Ganges and the starting point of pilgrim route, and is considered to be one of Hinduism’s holiest pilgrimage centers. We wanted to have closer experience of this ancient cand holy city.  So after our stay at the Ashram, on Sunday Susan and I came to Samanvaya Vidhya Dham, at the invitation of Fr, Davis Varayilan.  Located right in the heart of the city, this place provided us with great vantage point to study and explore the magic of this place.  It is said that Rishikesh has this innate quality  about it that sends out certain positive energy vibrations.  This city is spread out few miles on either side of river Ganges and is connected by two suspension bridges called Laxman Jhula and Ram Jhula. Jhula means bridge in Hindi.  We strolled along the streets, lined with eateries and stalls selling ritual paraphernalia, leading to Laxman Jhula. It is fun to watch foreign tourists in Indian clothes mingling in abandon with Hindu holy men or men appearing to be holy and roaming cows.  From the suspension bridge you get a nice view of the river and the city with all its many temples, ashrams, yoga places, Ayurvedic massage parlors and hotels.  Once we reached the other side, we kept walking by the side of the river but without the advantage of seeing the river due to all the shops. By the time we got to Ram Jhula, we were dead tired from heat and exhaustion.  That was when we came upon CafĂ© Day, the Indian equivalent of Starbucks. The coffee tasted especially good, as we didn’t have coffee at the ashram; for some reason they served only tea.  With energy coffee provided we went down the steps to the river and got our feet wet in the cool waters of Ganga, much to our surprise the water was clean and very clear. We made a full circle by going over Ram Jhula and walking back to our place of stay.  Though it was tiring, it was good experience. 








We are surrounded by many ashrams.  The two ashrams I was corresponding with while in the US are next to the place of our stay.  Sivananda Ashram is a big one that can accommodate hundreds of people at the same time. We went took a tour of the place and bought couple of books.  Swami Sivananda who started this ashram was a great man, and his followers continued to keep this place going strong.  In addition to this ashram, the society runs couple of hospitals and is involved many other charitable institutions in the city and outside. All these ashrams are based on Hindu philosophy and ancient practices in attaining moksha or salvation.  Salvation is understood as liberating the soul or atman from the endless cycle of reincarnations or rebirths to become one with God or paramatman .  Yoga helps one to meditate with concentration, and such concentrated meditation without any undue attachment to empirical things one will be able to go beyond body, breath and mind to the fourth and fifth dimensions.  This is what human beings are capable of and what creator had in mind at the time of creation.  It reminds me what Jesus says, “Seek ye first the kingdom of God.” And what apostle Paul says in Romans, “For the creation waits with eager longing  for the revealing of the children of God; for the creation was subjected to futility, not of its will but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and will obtain the freedom of glory of the children of God.”  

Haridwar to Rishikesh




Sorry my readers.  I was out of wi-fi connection for the last few days.  More blogs will be shortly.

Our train journey from Amritsar in the night was peaceful except for the noises tea vendors made when train stopped at some limited stations on the way. We had a cabin to ourselves; slept well, and by morning around 7:30 we arrived Haridwar, some 25 kilometers from Rishikesh, our destination.  The passenger, traveling by herself in the next cabin, was also an Indian coming from the US visiting relatives in Rishikesh.  She said her nephew will pick her up from the station and he would help us hail a taxi for us to our Ashram.  When he came he said he would give us ride as his place shared the same compound with our Ashram. What a blessing! He took us to our destination by a scenic route through a National Park. We saw some deer, peacocks, and some birds probably only unique to that area.  The Himalayan mountain peaks with its thick lush growth in the distance and the waters from its many ravines now converging in the river Ganges flowing close to us made the scenes quite picturesque and us feel calm and peaceful. What made us this long to come here!




Friday, February 17, 2012

Amritsar - Home of the Sikhs and the Golden Temple




Upon coming to the Hotel, Golden Tulip, we forgot all about our previous night’s ordeal after a nice warm shower, a hearty breakfast, and a good sleep on that Friday morning.  Refreshed and rejuvenated, we felt daring enough to go out and back into the hustle and bustle of the streets of another city.  Compared to the other cities we had been to so far, Amritsar seemed less crowded and more subdued. 

As visiting the Golden temple, the main reason we came here, and other sites nearby it would require one day, we decided we would do that on the following day- Saturday. So that meant we could dedicate the rest of the afternoon for something light like going to the Wagha Border and watch the daily evening flag lowering ceremony.   It is a practice the security forces of India and Pakistan jointly followed since 1959.  At the gate on the Grand Trunk Road that connects India and Pakistan, on their respective sides hundreds of spectators gather to watch this beautiful meticulously choreographed military ceremony.  We took a taxi out to the border crossing, about an hour before the ceremony.  People had to get off from their vehicles quite far from the entrance to the viewing gallery due to security concerns.  And this means trouble if you’re not street smart, I mean Indian street smart, you could be in trouble.  There are all kinds peddlers out there trying to sell you things, and they are good at it.  Like mosquitoes they come from all directions. We fell victim and bought a CD from one guy on the border crossing ceremony, which we were about to see. However we got it for half the price he asked for – a small victory of sorts.  As we crossed this barrier, we had to form two lines, one for men and the other for women.  This was mainly to protect women from the unruly crowd.  As women were smaller in number, Susan was able to get in first through the security check.  Once we both passed through the check, for a while I couldn’t locate Susan, and I was somewhat anxious.  It was huge crowd and it is very easy to miss each other.  Fortunately, I was wearing a bright red sweater and Susan could spot me from anywhere.  Though she located me, we couldn’t sit together as men and women were seated separately. The Indian side definitely had more people, not a surprise given its larger population. Prior to the ceremony, the soldiers called women of all ages to come down from the gallery and dance, which they were very happy to oblige, to the latest Bollywood songs right on the spot where the military will do their ceremonial exercises later.  After much patriotic slogans and ear splitting shouts by the crowd, people settle down for the military exercise to begin.  What is interesting is that these enemies coordinate and choreograph their movements in mirror image on both sides.  Following the parade of soldiers, I must add on Indian side there are female soldiers also, flags were lowered, folded, and retreated coordinately, the gates were opened, and the soldiers from either side shook hands and once again gates are closed.  It is a beautiful thing to watch.  I wish we could have gotten little closer to the action, nevertheless we enjoyed.  Getting out of that place was hard as was getting in. Overall, it was good experience.  I was surprised to see the number of trucks with goods waiting to go to the other side.  I believe there is much trade between India and Pakistan; given the enmity between these archrivals this is a good sign.
We had a taxi for the whole day on Saturday as were planning to go to a number of different places.  Heera, our driver, who spoke a little more English than the previous day’s driver, was a huge help throughout the day.  First he took us to the Golden Temple. Like at the Wagha Border Gate, we had to park the car quite far from the temple.  However, the temple provided golf carts for people to go from the parking place to the temple.  Once we got to the temple, we realized that we made a huge mistake in not coming on the previous day. On Saturday, the crowd doubles between visitors and pilgrims.  Both men and women had to cover their heads.  We also had to take off our shoes and walk on bare feet on cold marble floor.  Once you’re inside, it is spotlessly clean and you wouldn’t mind walking barefoot except that it was cold. It is quite an impressive structure. The temple in the middle of large square pool, you get to it by a bridge one of the four sides.  From all sides there are marble steps to the pool.  We saw people bringing small white plastic bottles to carry water from this to take home.  On one side, there are separate areas for men and women devotees to go into the water and take a dip.  The temple, pool, and wide areas for people to walk are enclosed by identical white structures like a perfect square.  We took a leisurely walk around the pool and took pictures of the temple rather than attempting to wait in line to enter the temple.  This temple, Sikhism’s most revered center, was originally built in the late 1500s, destroyed by an Afghan invader in the latter of 1700s, rebuilt by Maharaja Ranjit Singh, the ruler of Punjab.
Guru Nanak, who opposed idol worship, rituals and caste system of the prevailing religion, Hinduism, formed Sikhism.  It is syncretic religion; one can observe elements of Hinduism and Islam in it. The architecture of the temple also reflects these influences. By the way, the Golden Temple is Gold.  Maharajah Ranjit Singh gave 100 Kilogram gold to cover the entire temple with gold veneer.     

Close to the temple is the next site we saw. The Jallianwallah Bagh is a national monument of great importance.  During the freedom struggle, a crowd of unarmed demonstrators who gathered inside this enclosed garden was gunned down on the orders of a British General. Today, it stands as a memorial to the ones who lost their lives.

Next one was another temple, a Hindu one dedicated to Durga.  Built like a replica of Golden temple with water surrounding and a causeway to enter into it.  There was not much traffic at this temple, quite understandable for Punjab, which is dominated by Sikhs. 

We also saw a museum, not very popular it seems, as it was practically empty, dedicated to Maharajah Ranjit Singh, who defeated the Afghans and kept the British at bay. 







By evening we were completely tired of all the visits.  We had already checked out of the hotel but kept the luggage there for us to collect it later in the evening right before we journey towards Rishikesh.  After dinner, we climbed on our train without any incident.  It was pleasant journey.  I will tell you more about it on the next blog from Rishikesh.  Thank you all for reading and I like your comments. 

Monday, February 13, 2012

Our Harrowing Ride to Amritsar




Our last day with aunt Saramma started on a good note.  Andrew took us to the shopping mall that serves only military personnel and their families.  It was possible only because of their considerable goodwill the base has with Kashmir Evangelical Mission.  It is a good place where you can get stuff that are unique to Kashmir such as their silk, rugs, and things like them.  I was glad just to be inside the base and see things. 
The day went quickly, but the night turned out to be long to say the least.  As our train from Jammu to Amritsar was at 9:30 PM, I didn’t want Andrew to drive us to Jammu at night especially considering the treacherous nature of the road and the terrain.  So we took a train from Udhampore to Jammu, and we reached an hour before our connecting train to Amritsar and for which we had reservations since early December for a nice comfortable ride in a heated coach with comfortable beds, clean sheets and pillows. It was something we were looking forward to.  We had a hard time getting out of the train from Udhampore with our two suitcases and a bag.   As soon as the train stopped, there was rush of a huge crowd passengers trying to come in before we could get out. I am thankful that both Susan and I were able to get out of the train without being trampled under or any bodily injury. I couldn’t believe that I forgot how normal this kind of thing is when you ride train in India.  Well, I didn’t have much time to catch my breath as I was now on a new mission to find the platform from where the Amritsar train was to be boarded.  Everything is written in Hindi, and there wasn’t a person in sight in that crowd of people who could speak English and know what was going on.  I stopped at three different enquiry places, and each gave me different information.
My Hindi today is as good as my English was when I first went to the US some forty years ago.  Let me cut to the chase, just five minutes before my train was supposed to leave the station I found out that my Amritsar train was cancelled from there, however, if I wanted to catch that train I would get it in Pathancot, some 120 kilometers from Jammu.  Furthermore, I could get to that station by getting into a train headed for New Delhi and that it was about to take off in five minutes from platform number 3.  We got to platform 3 just as the train was beginning to move, somehow I pushed the luggage in and we got in to find out that we were in a similar coach as on our missing train.  People were nice and very helpful and allowed us to sit there till we get to Pathankot.  When the Ticket Examiner came, we told him about our situation expecting some sympathy and consolation.  However, his attitude was that he couldn’t be bothered with such small matters. The fellow passengers were irked by his uncooperative attitude and decided to help us further.
As they were frequent travelers between Jammu and Delhi, they gave us crucial information, this train we were on wouldn’t stop in Pathankot, but would stop at a station just 2 kilometers away.  Once we get there we could get a taxi or scooter to this station.  Due to some track work going on between, the New Delhi train we were on going was so slow, it took about 6 hours to travel 120 kilometers, and finally we got off at a station called Chukky Bank at 3 AM, and up until that point we hadn’t had any sleep.   We called a scooter and asked him take us to Pathancot station in a hurry so that we can catch our express train to Amritsar, which was to leave the station in few minutes.  Since I asked him to take us in a hurry he jacked up the price to the max.  I didn’t argue.  We got into the station and found out the train was about to leave and if we run to the platform we might be able to catch it.  It was about 3:15 a.m and it was about 10 degrees Celsius, which means for my American readers about 50 degrees Fahrenheit.  Susan and I ran as if our life depended on it, with our 3-pieces of luggage in hand. We must have been about 50 yards away from the train when it took off.  There we were in Pathankot at 3:30 a.m, cold, tired, our throats parched and stomachs empty, with nobody around with whom we could talk to. We were shivering and shaking.  Then we heard on the PA system that a local train to Amritsar will be leaving the station around 4:30 a.m, it would arrive at our destination by about 8 a.m.  With no other option, we decided to take that train.  As we got into the train, we found out that not only was there no heat but also that some of the windows were stuck open letting in cold air. Susan and I sat close like the newly weds wrapping ourselves in a couple of shawls.  I suppose we were not dressed for the occasion.  When the train finally crawled into Amritsar, our 12 hour nightmare was over.  The hotel we booked there, the Golden Tulip, couldn’t be nicer.  After a shower and a buffet breakfast, we decided to catch up on our sleep before we  dared do anything more. Unfortunately, I have no picture to post about our adventure.  Taking a picture was the last thing on my mind.  Stay tuned for the blog from Amritsar.        

Sunday, February 12, 2012

In Jammu and Kashmir



We flew from Jaipur early Tuesday (Feb 7) morning to Jammu via New Delhi.  My nephew, Andrew, whom I had never seen before, was waiting for us at the airport in his car.  He took us though the mountainous terrain further north to his home in Udhampur, a garrison town.  After reaching Jammu our cell phone lost its connection and we couldn’t use the internet using my Tata Photon postpaid card, all due to border security precautions by the military.  The winding roads through the mountains, deep gorges on one side and higher elevations on the other, a feast of scenic beauty to our eyes, was somewhat scary and treacherous, especially so when Andrew had to share the road to on-coming traffic.  A four-lane highway is being built between Jammu and Srinagar, but we’re too early to enjoy a ride on it.  Lot of trucks with heavy loads going towards Srinagar and beyond, at even higher elevations, can be seen parked on the side of the road waiting for the roads to clear off from the previous day’s heavy snow fall.  It took two hours to get to Udhampur, a distance of approximately 35 miles from the airport.

This was the first time in 25 years we saw my aunt Saramma, now 84.  She is staying with her daughter, Shimona and her family.  A former professor of history and politics at a college in Kerala, Saramma now spends her time 2,500 miles away in the north with her daughter, enjoying her grandchildren, Andrew and Christina and teaching young women in the neighborhood conversational English.
Aunt Saramma recalled stories of my early childhood.  She, being an younger sister of my mom knew a lot about my mom’s illness and her subsequent death in a sanatorium at the young age of 32.  At the time mom died, I was 4, my brother was 7, and my sister was hardly a year old.  It was this aunt and another aunt who no longer lives, who were the ones who took care of us during mom’s illness and immediately following her death.  It was nice to be able to spend some time with her and learning about my mom’s family and relations.

Last time when I saw Shimona, she was in grade school, now she is a 46 year-old Christian missionary working with her missionary husband Pastor Santhosh.  Their ministry is called Kashmir Evangelical Mission (KEM).  Their motto is “reaching the unreached and telling the untold.”  In the early days, they faced opposition in doing this work in Udhampur, a predominantly Hindu community.  However, today their work is prospering in this community as well as throughout this mountainous Himalayan region.  Susan and I had a chance to visit one of the prayer meetings in the house of a newly converted parishioner. As Santhosh was away in Delhi on business, Andrew took us around to places in the immediate vicinity.  It was a wonderful visit.  Though I am not much into conversion of people to another religion, I believe in transformation.  KEM is truly transforming people into a new way of living.  The Christian Church is growing as a result of their work in this part of India unlike in Kerala, where ironically, Christianity came first. 
  

Friday, February 10, 2012

Jaipur, The Pink City




My brother and niece saw us off at the Ahmedabad airport early Saturday morning.  As further northward travel would take us into unknown territory, we both were somewhat anxious about our next stop in Jaipur.  Not knowing sufficient Hindi to converse would put us in at the mercy of uncouth taxi drivers who would take travelers unfamiliar to the area literally for a ride and charge huge sums of money.  Fortunately, we had enough sense to ask our hotel in Jaipur to send us a taxi with our name written on a placard. Not only did we have a driver waiting for us, but he also happened to be a Malayalee (a person from Kerala who speaks Malayalam).  Varghese served, in addition to being our driver, as our guide and guardian. 

After reaching Tara Niwas – a three star hotel – we freshened up and set out on our to some of the most important sights.  First we stopped at Albert’s Hall Museum, known for its Hindu-Gothic architecture. Built in 1868 by Maharaja Sawai Ram Singh II, it now serves as the central museum for Rajasthan’s art and culture.  I was clearly impressed with both the architecture of the building and the vast collection of artifacts it houses.  As even a cursory glance through the exhibits took sometime, we decided to postpone a further probe into the riches of this city to the next day.




As the following day was Sunday, we thought we would start with worshiping at an English speaking church, which happened to be an Anglican Church, following the Church of North India liturgy, very much like our Episcopal liturgy we use at St. Peter’s in Phoenixville.  The service started at 9 a.m and finished by 10 a.m, right on the dot like the English.  Varghese, our driver, said he had just dropped his wife at her Indian Orthodox church where the service would last 3 hours and 30 minutes.  We counted our blessings and went on to see the Amber Palace by driving through the Pink City – the old part of Jaipur City.  On the way we saw Hawa Mahal, - the Palace of winds.  It provided the women of the royal family an adequate vantage point behind stone-carved mesh like screens to view the royal processions passing through bazaar. After skillfully driving through the hectic and frenetic streets of the old city, we finally got into road going to the palace.  Here, in addition to the motorists, we had to share streets with tourists on camels and elephants.  Once you reached the palace, you’re in for a treat.  It is indeed a beautiful palace with a fort stretching miles and miles on uneven mountainous terrain.  This was the ancient capital of Jaipur State.  We saw couple of other palaces as well from a distance.  Seeing these palaces and fortresses made me think how much the royals must have exploited the masses to support their lavish and extravagant life style.  Rajasthan is indeed a rich state with lots of resources.  However, its wealth is concentrated in a few hands and is not circulating in its economy.  It streets are crowded, filthy, polluted and insufficient.  A massive undertaking is needed to build an infrastructure, which would support the life of a population of about 5 million.  It took two hours to come back to our hotel to travel a distance of less than 10 kilometers coming back from the palace.  I couldn’t believe it when I found out that it was due to the traffic police closing a busy street to allow a religious procession to go through the city without providing an adequate detour.  With all that, I would say it was a great visit.